Was emergent spacetime fundamental at the beginning of the universe?

In one YouTube comment thread one atheist has remarked that it is really infuriating that all the apologist arguments that he has seen presented so far have ultimately failed to provide any proof for the existence of god. All their arguments are nothing but playing around with definitions of words and literally just throwing an explanation into the gaps of our knowledge, thus showing that every single god argument is essentially a god of the gaps argument, or that they feel good or special by being able to give that argument. Although it is not the case that he does not want there to be a god, yet he hopes that this god will not be the genocidal maniac presented in the Bible.

I replied to him in the following manner:

‘If there is a God at all, then that God is not the God of this earth only, that God is the God of the entire universe. On this earth, many myths have been created around this God, but these myths cannot have any meaning and significance to the other civilizations, if there are any in the outer space, as the myths if created by the other civilizations in the outer space will not have any meaning and significance to us. So God should not at all be judged by any myths created by any religion on earth. This point should always be remembered.

‘Regarding the question as to whether there is any evidence for the existence of God, you can read my article ‘God, the full and final version’ here:


‘However, one cautionary remark here. Please do not try to misinterpret me, either willingly or unwillingly, because atheists are very much prone to do that. In the above article, I have shown as to why a creator of the universe will always be spaceless and timeless. Then I have also shown that scientists in the 21st century have come to the conclusion that spacetime is not fundamental at all and that it has emerged from something non-spatiotemporal/spaceless and timeless in nature.

‘So, this much is confirmed by science up till now that there is something spaceless and timeless in nature and I have also shown that God will always be spaceless and timeless.

‘Nothing further has been claimed or asserted by me that this shows there is a God. Rather, I have written that in order to come to the conclusion that this spaceless and timeless thing has got consciousness, we will have to wait for the delivery of the requisite goods from the scientists.’

After getting my reply, this atheist becomes silent. But it is not so easy to silence all the atheists at the same time and so there immediately appears another atheist in the scene and states that my understanding of present-day cosmology is biased and outdated. This is because there are at least two cosmological models that do not require a first cause. These are: 1) Hawking’s no boundary proposal and 2) Penrose’s conformal cyclic cosmology. Both of these models are mathematically coherent and the Penrose model may even have some physical evidence.

My reply to this atheist was a bit lengthy, but he also became silent after getting the reply. Below it is:

‘Your comment shows that perhaps you have not yet fully understood what it means that spacetime is emergent. An entity is emergent means it cannot emerge from just anything or nothing; it can emerge from some pre-existing entity or entities only. In the case of spacetime, this pre-existing entity is something non-spatiotemporal. In brief, we can call it NSE (non-spatiotemporal entity).

‘This NSE must be pre-existent in each and every cosmological model of the universe in which it is an accepted fact that the universe is expanding from an initial zero size and that it is not static. In some of the models, the expansion of the universe will stop after some time and then it will begin to contract and eventually it will come to a zero size. From there another phase of the universe will begin. In some other models, this expansion does not stop and nobody knows for how long the universe will go on expanding. But in every cosmological model that has been presented to us so far, this expansion of the universe from an initial zero size is there. That means in each and every cosmological model presented to us, spacetime has a beginning. Spacetime being emergent cannot begin/emerge from anything else other than NSE. Here there will be no beginning of spacetime, rather the emergence of spacetime from some pre-existing entity.

‘Here it might be objected: why can it not be the case that spacetime was fundamental at the beginning of the expansion of the universe and that it became emergent later on only? Here our question will be: Not from any theory, but from the external world, can scientists give any concrete evidence that spacetime was fundamental at the beginning of the expansion of the universe?

‘Here I will give you one example for making my point clear. In the special theory of relativity, there are two equations that show that at the speed of light time totally stops and that even an infinite distance becomes zero for light. The first one is the scientific explanation for timelessness and the second one is the same for spacelessness. So, it can be said that SR has shown how it is possible to be spaceless and timeless. It can also be shown by some simple logic that a timeless entity is also a deathless entity. So, we can now say SR has shown how it is possible to be spaceless, timeless and immortal. Based on this, can we jump to the conclusion that there is a spaceless, timeless and immortal being, aka God? Will anybody allow us? Will you allow us?

‘Here you will say: “We want some concrete evidence that there is a God. Only theory or maths will not do.”

‘We are saying the same thing here also: “We want some concrete evidence that spacetime was fundamental at the beginning of the expansion of the universe. Only theory or maths will not do.”’

My remark: There is a difference between science and religion. In religion, everything is accepted by faith alone, no evidence being required for any claim made. But in science, this is not so, because in science we do not accept anything by faith; we require some evidence for every claim made by the scientists. So, if scientists now claim that spacetime was fundamental when the universe began to expand, then they must provide some suitable evidence in support of their contention that it was fundamental at that time.